Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | bluepeter's commentslogin

Worth remembering that Steve Jobs championed "iAds"... https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthof/2011/12/13/steve-jobs...

Yeah & they veered so hard into tying to make them tasteful & not suck that it failed. Turns out the real money is in spyware.

How so? This smells like Apple Distortion Field. "Yeah our ads are better. Its the other guys' ads that are bad".

The problem with Apple is they make statements that they walk back gleefully at a moments notice.

- Nobody wants a bigger phone - iPhone Pro Maxes

- Nobody wants foldables - iPhone Duo

- We've simplified the product portfolio .. ahem.

- AI is bad - Ours is called Apple Intelligence. Totally different thing.

Think Different indeed.


When iAd launched, it was a $1 million minimum spend just to get onto the platform, they wanted large corporate “lifestyle” brands, Apple exerted creative control over how ads were designed so they could enforce a bunch of user experience guardrails & marketers had no means of independently verifying campaign performance themselves. Their only source was whatever Apple told them. It did not do well. A few years later they tried to salvage it by dropping the minimum spend to $50, removing themselves from the process & making it closer to Google’s AdMob—or approximately as much as Apple was able to early last decade—but it was too little too late. They dropped it by 2016.

When it comes to mobile advertising, Google & Facebook won, & Apple was never even really a player. If it’s unclear to you, I wasn’t complimenting Apple for this endeavor either. Mobile ads suck, & nothing they did with iAd did anything to meaningfully improve them.


  > Think Different indeed

  - Make the phone thinner
  - Make the laptop thinner
  - Make the iPad thinner
Extreme innovation

Well, and dozens of other innovations every other company copied, conveniently ignored.

From shipping a fully certified UNIX with a modern UI, to getting all the music player market and influencing how any music player would be from then on, to seamlessly moving between Motorola and Intel and Apple Silicon with the ability to run the older software from a different architecture with Rosetta, to the first modern touch smartphone, 1 full year before Android came out (and which made Android change its beta design to copy the way iOS worked), to getting wireless earpods (and pairing) right, to designing their own fucking integrated CPU, and even their own broadband chip. Even simple things, like making the best touchpad in the market.

Modern "services+ads" Apple sucks to the point that I'm moving away, but to say they didn't innovate is laughable.


A lot of the things you mention aren't things that have been "conveniently forgotten", they're simply things that mean nothing to most people to begin with...

> From shipping a fully certified UNIX with a modern UI

Ignored because nobody cares or wanted it.

> to getting all the music player market and influencing how any music player would be from then on

Anybody born after millennials have only ever known Spotify, they don't know about iTunes and 99c songs. That's like saying Napster has been conveniently forgotten.

> to seamlessly moving between Motorola and Intel and Apple Silicon with the ability to run the older software from a different architecture with Rosetta

That's a remarkable engineering achievement but that's an implementation detail. Backwards compatibility on the desktop was and still is tablesakes.

> to the first modern touch smartphone

Nobody forgot, there's always one of you to remind the class that Apple was first (by your own definition of modern touch smartphone)

> to getting wireless earpods (and pairing) right

They were clearly the first to demonstrate that people did indeed want fully wireless despite HN's objections at the time.

> to designing their own fucking integrated CPU, and even their own broadband chip

That would be impressive if they were a startup. Every trillion dollar tech companies design their own CPUs.

> Even simple things, like making the best touchpad in the market.

I don't know anyone who claims otherwise, and for the longest time they didn't make their own touchpads. So much for being conveniently forgotten.


What a bad-faith comment. You just wanted to launch into an anti-Apple lecture and it doesn’t sound like you have the slightest clue about this specific topic. Have you watched the iAds presentation? They’re not like any other advertisements I’ve seen before. CERTAINLY not at the time. You can see exactly why advertisers didn’t bite.

OpenAI solving all these math/etc problems (reportedly 100 coming) is both impressive and insanely unimpressive. Unimpressive because to me it sorta signals that OpenAI has nothing better to be working on than obscure mathematical curios?

Your comment implies that this is all that they're working on, which does not seem substantiated.

It seems like OpenAI's takeaway after Sora is to not stretch themselves thin and focus on what's important.

Based on what's publically available, they're focusing on hacking uncontesting orgs using misconfigured sandboxes and math puzzles.

Your statement is essentially unfalsifiable. We can't possibly discuss whatever Sam Altman is doing in his private office room, nor should we assume OpenAI is working on anything other than what has some public traces.


No it signals that they can do few things very well. And among those few things are those math puzzles.

I think they should now focus on robotics, so it can do my dishes while I work on fun math games.


>I think they should now focus on robotics

why would they compete with Nvidia on that?


We already have dish washers bud.

There’s this bizarre lesson that humanity is gona learn - much of life in many respects is already automated. And that small % of what is non-automated will be kept to have some semblance of feeling human and useful.

There’s already a lot of fake jobs and output of zero value - nobody bats an eyelid.


But we're on the hedonic treadmill, so the loading/unloading of the dishwasher feels like maximal effort to people who've never lived without one. Same with all the other automations in our lives, people just can't imagine life without refrigeration or plumbing or motor vehicles.

The dish washer neither fills nor empties itself. Personally I'd pay an obscene amount of money to never have to sort my socks again.

Do what I do: buy only socks of 1 kind.

You still gotta deal with them though.

Attempting to solve & solving open math problems probably is a good benchmark for comparing models and gauging model progression. A lot of useful info is obtained like time needed to solve the problems, identifying when not to chase dead ends, thought processes & logic steps, etc.

Disagree. We are at the point where coming up with good evals for these models is extremely difficult. Solving unsolved math problems is a valid way of evaluating model progress and somewhat necessary to understand how far the current crop of models can go.

Nothing in TFA seems to imply that this was solved by OpenAI. This looks like an independant researcher.

Consider that their internal use of AI is likely pretty math and science heavy.

I think the publicity is a nice to have. They need models like this for in-house use.

Technically, this isn’t OpenAI directly.


My bad on the origin of this. Still, we saw a recent rumor that they've solved another 100 inscrutable math problems. I'd say their N-S announcement did not result in positive publicity at all. In fact, quite the opposite, and may be the direct cause of the dozens of Fields medal winners penning their "slow AI" letter.

Correct.

There are many things I want to do - that would require me to hire a team of 50 people.

I don’t want to do that nor can I afford to. Can OAI focus on enabling me to do this? I don’t care about this other stuff.

Just like many things in life - if it doesn’t show up in the economy it’s irrelevant.


Like what?

well, you could say that for plenty of academic research but their value is usually not obvious at the start.

That's silly. I'm sure calculus was considered obscure when Newton developed it -- time is what's needed to judge if something is useful or not.

> Writing requires thinking, don't let an AI do the thinking for you.

Okay, but reading also requires substantial thinking. Moreover, we can say the same about, say, coding. And I am sure there are people who will say, yes, don't use AI to code. But I do, and the results are amazing, and I still think very deeply: in fact, I spend more time with AI coding (and thinking) than before as I do not get hamstrung on, how do I convert this Word doc to PDF in code again? I spend more time in higher order thinking. Same with when I read text written by an AI. I don't believe that writing is any more sacrosanct that coding. And reading and adjusting AI output requires substantial thinking.


We have copious evidence for behaviors like note taking and writing creates deeper thinking and retention that passively watching / reading

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-writing-by-ha...


Anyone who has learned a language knows this anecdotally. The linguistic structures need to be marshalled by active cognition (editing and writing). Merely reading and watching is not enough.

> Okay, but reading also requires substantial thinking.

I don't think anyone would argue reading a book takes as much thinking as writing one…


Perhaps not 1:1, but, personally, I can read for much longer than I can write. And so I'd argue that this duration increase matches any deeper thought that comes with shorter writing bursts.

That should tell you something about how much effort (thinking) is required for the activity. The fact you writing is t something you can do as much as reading means you use your brain a bit more. I would claim that consuming information always uses less thought then generating information. For a human brain at least.

I've been watching chess videos for many years but my own chess playing is just recreational.

Writing/programming as a specialization of just going through the damn thing is actually sacrosanct IMO. Spectatorship as a generalization of reading is second-class. You do become a worse programmer as you move to "higher order thinking", it just matters less in a world where LLMs exist.

> And reading and adjusting AI output requires substantial thinking.

It does, but less of that thinking translates to skills transferred. What amount of the creativity and magic of Tolkien transferred to his editor? I'm sure it took substantial thinking to edit Tolkien's work.


AI can’t write for shit because it doesn’t have your experience for context and it doesn’t know what you actually want to say.

Hell, most people barely have a rough idea of what they are trying to say when they sit down to write, and they have all of the context.

Writing and coding do have many similarities, at a high level. But the things that make AI good at coding don’t really apply to writing. The analogy doesn’t work well here.


Found this:

> Plus, Pro, Business, Enterprise, and Edu accounts will not have ads.

https://help.openai.com/en/articles/20001047-ads-in-chatgpt


In the long run, the problem they'll run into with this is that the the people who have enough disposable income to pay for those plans are the people that advertisers will pay the most to show ads to. This is the same reason why the ads on daytime television are mainly for structured settlement cash-outs, drug class actions, and injury attorneys rather than for something that the viewer would have to pay money for.

For now.

Just like cable tv, and Netflix, and Amazon Prime Video, and....

... and now the TV itself has ads!

as well as anti virus.

AI doomerism makes me sad, especially when it keeps popping up even in HN and Reddit tech threads. I can't help but see even this post itself as a kind of AI doomerism. Here we have the greatest innovation I've seen in my career... It's such a game-changer for me personally, and I can't wait to see what happens. But the anti-data center and anti-AI voices are rising, rising. I know that over-regulation is a real risk that can stifle that innovation and all its benefits really fast. I can't help but see the parallels to the nuclear debate from decades ago. The difference now is that we already have millions (billions?) of people using AI, and yet we haven't had widespread disaster. That's not to say that it can't happen, but it feels like we are battling an invisible demon that never shows itself. At the same time, my 15 year old son coded 3 ROblox apps this summer... he said, this can't be coding. It sure is, I said, you are coding and revel in it because you're on the vanguard. He was so excited and so am I.

It is not a game changer for anyone, yourself included.

That is the fallacy - you think this is some amazing thing when it isn't. You're experiencing AI psychosis.


ZDR is the main reason to use OpenRouter as it's difficult (impossible?) to get from OpenAI/Anthropic as an individual or small business.

Their zdr is not a concrete promise though, there's no way to verify that the provider is not storing the logs

Okay, true, but I'm not sure how they could verify that? Isn't that like proving a negative?

Sandy ant video intro is good. Love the whimsical fun music, whatever it is.

For real. I almost think they shouldn't practice, script it, or focus-group it. Just get up there and wing it. Would honestly sound better.

I'm stating to think everyone hands are actually AI CGI.

Apparently, you won't be able to use Mythos OR Fable for coding. From their announcement...

> routine tasks like coding and debugging will fall back to Opus 4.8.


But it’s available in Claude Code. I’m hoping that’s a typo missing a word or two in the sentence.


Yeah I think it is after reading the linked blog post.


Where is that?



Fable 5 apparently can't be used for coding? (This is from Anthropic's announcement.)

> After a series of productive conversations with the US government, we're redeploying the model with a new set of classifiers to target and block more cybersecurity tasks. In the near term, some routine tasks like coding and debugging will fall back to Opus 4.8.

Edit: the above was from their tweet announcement at https://x.com/AnthropicAI/status/2072163884430229756 ... the associated blog post at https://www.anthropic.com/news/redeploying-fable-5 suggests it was just poorly written and coding can still be done with Fable, just with overeager bouncing of "some routine coding and debugging tasks" to Opus.


> Fable 5 will be included for up to 50% of weekly usage limits through July 7, after which it will be available via usage credits.

> The new classifier also comes at the cost of flagging benign requests more often during routine coding and debugging tasks.

Here's Fable 5, the strongest model. Actually try to use it to harden your code and it turns into Opus 4.8. You have seven days to use it, and only half of that time's worth in actual usage. Enjoy.

Looks like it's going to be a thoroughly frustrating experience, even worse than initial rollout. For subscription users, the situation is almost indistinguishable from the export ban.


So fable will jump more often to Opus than it already did on original release? Working with fable felt like having to constantly fight against your work tool. Frustrating. Now they're making it even more frustrating.


For reference, here's what my experience with Fable turned out to be like:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48466313

Just a code review of my own project. Downgraded to Opus 50% of the time while evaluating the critical I/O and memory safety parts, the exact thing I wanted it to do.

And now it's gonna be even worse.


I mean what do you expect when covering memory safety topics with a model that's not allowed to cover security topics? This seems totally expected. It'll be the same when 5.6 is released.


> what do you expect

I expect the strong cybersecurity model to help me strengthen the cybersecurity of my project.

> not allowed to cover security topics

They said it wouldn't be usable for offensive purposes. This is the opposite of that.


You don't have the strong cybersecurity model. That is not Fable. It never was, even at release.

The cybersecurity model is Mythos, which was never made publicly available. It is only available to a list of US government approved companies.

> They said it wouldn't be usable for offensive purposes

No, they said Fable would refuse for cybersecurity and offensive purposes. You are conflating Fable with Mythos.


Fable adds guard rails like cyber refusals to mythos. Mythos is the starting point for fable. Same model family.


They're very similar models though, just with different safeguards and restrictions in placae around particular use cases.

I guess the underlying issue is that there is this model that is very capable, but it's being hobbled because of a fear of abuse. It may well be justified, but for a legitimate user any restriction just makes it a worse product and after all the puffery around how good it is (and some practical experience of how good it is) it's a pretty shit experience. "Here's our best model, no you can't really use it".


Is there a difference though?

Fable 5, harden my openssl project. Then you use the diffs/summary to find out what the bug is for your exploit.


They're going to be verifying people's identities anyway. Why not put that bit of security theater to good use for once? I'm the author of project X, now let the model work on it, would you kindly?

This "only super special corporations get the model" nonsense is dividing society into haves and have-nots.


Fable is very strong for finding bugs. But you are explicitly not supposed to use it for cybersecurity. Even in the initial rollout I had it refuse and fall back to Opus when implementing a change password function


> Fable is very strong for finding bugs.

That's what I was trying to use it for. Find bugs. Anthropic just refused to let it find the memory safety bugs in my C project.


It even refuses to do numerical time-series analysis (this on an empty project). This is something even a non-llm ML algorithm can do. It’s insane


Donald Trump named David Sacks the White House AI and crypto czar. I guess you know whom to thank.


Wasnt it Anthropic marketing their models as very very smart and dangerous?


I can't roll my eyes hard enough at all the people who say this shit about Anthropic every day. I know I'll get downvoted. I know it's lame to complain about future downvotes. I don't care anymore.

Anthropic was correct in their assessment and early warning of Mythos's capabilities, and they did this rollout pretty well. They were not hype marketing. They were being genuinely cautious and honest.

The Trump admin was largely unreasonable with the sudden export control. (Though not entirely unreasonable.) The export control also had not much to do with Anthropic's pre-release warnings. See: GPT-5.6 currently being held up by the federal government.


> Anthropic was correct in their assessment and early warning of Mythos's capabilities, and they did this rollout pretty well. They were not hype marketing. They were being genuinely cautious and honest.

So what prevented them from putting in the sort of safeguards they ended up putting in without hyping it for months prior as being so good, it's too dangerous?


I'm not sure what you're saying. They spent ages adding guardrails to Mythos. Then they spent ages creating a whole new even more guardrailed version of Mythos called Fable. Then they added tons of classifiers so API requests to Fable would get rejected even if you ask a question like "what is a molecule". They put the thickest layer of bubble wrap around the model of any model in history. And then just today they made the classifiers even much more extreme than at the initial launch.

If they were truly honest in their beliefs of the potential risks of this model, how would their behavior have differed? I would expect exactly the behavior we see, if they were being honest in their belief.

Also note Dario here saying they shot themselves in the foot commercially with how they handled the rollout of the model - you can tell by his reflexive reaction how ridiculous he considers the accusation: https://youtu.be/v1wZwxY3CMg?t=2103


I am saying they could have not said anything about it being too dangerous etc. and just released Fable as a new model once the safeguards were in place and Mythos to trusted orgs as they did.

Instead they choose to hype for months about having a model that's simply 'too dangerous to release'.

In other words, why hype it beforehand instead of just quietly add the safeguards they ended up with anyways and release then?


Because Dario is an ASI doomer and deeply fears the power and danger of hyperintelligent AI and it'd be extremely irresponsible to not warn people "hey, this thing can do things the past models couldn't, and the future models may do it even better".

He was trying to be pro-social.


Sacks has been out since March


Oh come on Opus is perfectly good enough for any coding task. You will barely notice when it drops down from Fable.


Why use Fable at all then?


You probably shouldn't unless you're doing hardcore cybersecurity


It kind of sounds like you aren't allowed to use it for that.


Still waiting for the answer.


It was already frustrating to use before. I wanted to review my own code for OWASP top 10 kind of stuff and it kept refusing. It repeatedly popped up scary warnings about how I was violating TOS. I had to go through quite a few iterations of that prompt. When I finally got it to work it burned through all my remaining usage on a single run.

I won’t even bother with it if they’ve made it even more frustrating. Instead, I’ve been using a combo of Opus 4.8, GLM 5.2 and DeepSeek v4 Pro. Then I have Opus synthesize and verify the reports from all 3 and make the fixes.


> Looks like it's going to be a thoroughly frustrating experience, even worse than initial rollout.

Honestly, why bother with it? They are effectively just releasing the model in-name, but we just get Opus 4.8.


Yeah. I'm gonna ask Fable to code review my other projects and I guess that's it.


they might as well not released it at all, what's the point of this theater and artificial scarcity


No idea. But I will switch to OpenAI if they release their Sol model on a subscription. And if neither of them do, I will switch to GLM 5.2.


This is what I’m thinking, too. OpenAI is gaining a structural advantage purely on the basis of not being considered an enemy of the administration. Anthropic really blew it with Washington.


By "blew it with Washington" you mean "Didn't donate millions to the ballroom."


They blew it by pretending to take some sort of moral high ground while their model was being used in Iran to blow up schools. I say they get what they deserve. I would have a lot more respect for them if they banned Pentagon use of their models outright.


It's interesting that the fate of billions or even trillions of dollar hinges on millions of dollars of donations.


That is what corruption usually looks like


Yes. And as the saying goes: the scandal is not that you can buy politicians, the scandal is that they are so cheap.


It doesn't look like it; similar restrictions apply to GPT-5.6 as used to apply to Fable.

I think the Fable ban happened because Anthropic was first to release a capable enough model.


i don’t think 5.6 will be as good as fable. their benchmark graphs say so, maybe they’ll take some limiters off next week or something now that being Fable tier isn’t scary anymore.


It will likely be GLM 5.3 by then


Perhaps the 9,999 fields other than computer technician will appreciate it?


Fable 5 is switching into Opus 4.8 for everything I throw at it. It is not worth it Opus 4.8 is good enough for the next couple months. For $17/mo for pro anthropic is still worth it for claude code etc.


At least subscription users only have to pay $700 for $1000 of extra credits.


“And even though it falls back to Opus, we charge you for Fumble.”


Yes, I am pretty sure it was simply poorly worded.

They almost definitely mean "you will notice even more false positives during seemingly routine coding/debugging tasks than you did at the initial launch". Which is not surprising, given the ordeal they've been put through. Hopefully it won't be too bad.

The main depressing thing for me is it's now only 7 days on the subscription, and then full API pricing, with no mention of even a plan to bring it back to the subscription in the future. (The initial launch mentioned two weeks of subscription, then API pricing, then a hope to return it back to the subscription not long after.)


I wonder if they meant to draw a link between cybersecurity coding and debugging specifically or this really will apply to all coding and debugging. If it really is a more general restriction, then this is practically the same as it still being restricted.

"In the near term" is doing some heavy lifting.


So, you can't use it for coding, can't use it for 'sensitive' information in chemistry/biology. It follows that it's likely bad for medicine and adjacent topics too.

What can you use it for? To run a breadth search on Erdos problems?


To do if/else


In the press release, they 'kind of' clarify this:

   > The new classifier also comes at the cost of flagging benign requests more often during routine coding and debugging tasks.


where did you find that? weird coz their post announcing this also mentioned Claude Code:

> Fable 5 will be available starting tomorrow, Wednesday, July 1, to users globally on the Claude Platform, Claude.ai, Claude Code, and Claude Cowork. For Pro, Max, Team, and select Enterprise plans,1 Fable 5 will be included for up to 50% of weekly usage limits through July 7, after which it will be available via usage credits. We will re-enable access on AWS, Google Cloud, and Microsoft Foundry as quickly as possible.

https://www.anthropic.com/news/redeploying-fable-5


Their announcement tweet at https://x.com/AnthropicAI/status/2072163884430229756

Reading the full blog post, I think the summary was just poorly written (because it's hard not to read that sentence like all coding is redirected to Opus).


From the full announcement

> The new classifier also comes at the cost of flagging benign requests more often during routine coding and debugging tasks. As with all our safeguards, we’ll continue to refine this to better distinguish genuine misuse from legitimate requests and reduce false positives.


But wasn't the whole (claimed) reason that it got banned in the first place that it is a logical impossibility? Reviewing code for bugs is legitimate. Writing regression tests for bugs is legitimate. If the bug happens to be a security issue then the regression test may be a PoC or at least a step towards one.


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: